Creative security at TAMI

Hi from new member since december 2019.
Quick Intro:
On line I am DavidyYonathan2020.
Many of you have seen my face or email address in TAMI already.

I currently live in an Egg shaped Nadnedah beside a Tel Aviv Beach.
My written Hebrew is unusable And I read very slowly cause I am Oleh chadash.
I frequent TAMI several times a Week. to
1 Repair and Hack my Daiar Rehov bicycle,
2 Prepare a cooking / Food security project that I now run under the name
Feed TAMI…
3. Work to sustain and reintroduce the TAMI Central “Office” space.
4 I plan to get more involved with other fields where I have experience to share…

I first came in contact with a Maker space through Edmonton Public Library
I also visited the Edmonton Hackerspace.:
ENTS and
I became an active member of Vancouver Hackspace Society in 2015.

All hese spaces including TAMI are very different in culture and structure, all though they seemingly try to provide a similar interface of options.

Now to my problematic Issues. which I seem to share with some other TAMI members.

My Idea around a Feed TAMi .project is about Food Hacking and possibly a future career…
I (and possibly others make use of the fairly advanced kitchen at TAMI in order to provide tasty food hacks .for TAMI members that are too busy with their personal tech projects to prepare good quality food. At the same time I educate my self in food processing and I can enjoy a home made evening meal.
Unfortun ately for me and my Food Hacking there are others at TAMI who use TAMI s kitchen as their personal “Party” 4-20 ish space without any consideration for other TAMI members.
I bought special spices for about 50 shekels that have gone missing. a day later. Others are upset because the kitchen is left in a filthy and blocked unusable state…
At the same time, a lot of parts have gone misssing from the New CNC machine, and someone wants to know where the TAMI Arduinos have gone.(Also a bag of LEDs have gone missing.
I am seriously concerned for TAMI and It is very distressing and saddening to be forced to work and create under such circumstances., especially for me who cannot store food and equipment in any other place than TAMI.

TAMI is the most difficult maker space I have seen so far since it seems to
Head on intentionally mix the 4-20 so called party and hipster culture in to tech hacking and innovation. To me the TAMI experience seems more and more to be a socialist experiment than a garage work shop for people without garages or work spaces.

Any Ideas or willfull intentions on how to make TAMI even a little more workable as an intended Hack Space,/ Maker space without having to install alarms, cameras or throw out apparently homeless members?

Nobody said homeless people are stealing stuff so I don’t know how
“throw out apparently homeless members” will fix anything

a camera could help in resolving the disapearing equipment issue

I’m with Moti.

However if you have seen the box today or not seen it when you where there it’ll help with the current investigation…

Please consider posting a separate thread regarding your food hacking. It’s interesting and might attract some attention. I, for one, would love to hear more about it and may be able to contribute some ideas/suggestions.

I very much doubt that a camera would help much unless it is placed in such a awy that it covers the whole space, and then it would raise privacy concerns.
Also: My concern above is not about stealing. To me it doesn’t matter if the things gone missing ended up in places where they can’t be found because of inordinate behaviour while high on some induced substances. My intended point in raising this issue is .

What is TAMI to us that :consider us to be makers. Sure I could make a separate thread about food hacking, but If my ingredients are lost before hand then Any kind of food Hacks becomes impossible. TAMI is suddenly much less useful to me as a food hacker…

A possible solution could be a locker system. We can build lockers at a low cost for the use of members and/or as short term storage for occasional users (I can build it myself, mostly from just plywood, I’ve built similar things before). Locks can be electronically coded, qr code based, keyed, time locked or whatever other solution we come up with (the specifics can be worked out, we have the tools for multiple possible solutions…).
If we rent out locker storage space to occasional users, the system can pay for itself, and the extra money could provide additional income for TAMI.
It does not solve all the issues mentioned in the original post, but it will go a long way to solve the issue of theft/lost/misplaced items.
As far as cameras, I don’t really have an objection, but I don’t believe they will solve much.The open door policy in TAMI means that anyone can come in, break things, steal stuff and cause trouble in general. Having video evidence of such behaviors is meaningless if we don’t know who the person is. Cameras can still be useful, but it’s very limited.
All that being said, no solution is worthwhile doing as long as we don’t change the “rules are bad” attitude in TAMI. Some rules are good; “no operating table saws while drunk/completely stoned” for example, seems like a good rule. And good rules should be enforced.

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I just want to respond to the sentence “The open door policy”.

It is my understanding we are trying to implement a supervised-open-door-policy policy, summarized:

Any non member has to be supervised by a member

To achieve this, the idea is that the door is not open if you are in the space, someone knocks, you come to open, you then figure out if they are a member, and if not they have to stick to you until you trust them.

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Another option I’ve suggested in the past would be to require non-members to leave a deposit (~200 NIS) when entering TAMI. If they break something, or cause harm otherwise, they forfeit their deposit. If not, they can take the deposit back before leaving.

If there was a broken refrigerator with a pad lock to store food items such as spices and expensive ingredients…

But People I over heard don’t have an interest to police . They just want to work on their projects.and get along with their peers…

Too hostile towards newcomers.
What happened happened because people like to party. and they don’t want to babysit other adults. The problem is similar to having pigeons coming into your house. You have to work with infrastructure, to make kitchen elecrtricity and utensils less availlable, and have lockable cabinets for important supplies to the CNC.

So good fences = good neighbors? I can agree with that attitude, and it is exactly what stands behind my locker system suggestion. It should also be mentioned that most TAMI members tend to be flexible when applying the rules, so that a requirement for a deposit, ID card or signing a waiver, for example, may not be placed on everyone equally. If you can’t afford to place a deposit but seem like a trusted individual, and are willing to be supervised while at TAMI, most members will not enforce such rules on you.
As mentioned, most of us really don’t like to police and babysit others, but it is nice to have rules that CAN be applied when necessary.
Regarding keeping things in the fridge, perhaps you can make/find a small lock box that fits inside the existing fridge? Clearly marked with your name, current date, and a do not throw away/take/remove sign, of course. Just a suggestion.

What Alon said, I thought it was known and understood. So if you really cannot keep an eye on strangers then you should not let them in. Just for another example, imagine a young kid walks in. It could be dangerous if you are not there to supervise.

we know exactly who has been causing problems lately and who let them in. what to do about that, we have to decide: it’s a clear instance of an abuse of the vouch policy where you are responsible for your guest including not leaving them unsupervised.

anyway the bad guy has been trying to break into TAMI, on Wednesday night and again on Thursday night. we can assume this will continue, at least for a while. Advice: do not let in any banned people (pictures, where we have them, are posted right next to the door), do not let in any suspicious people that you do not know, especially outside of working hours, and never ever leave TAMI unlocked (both doors).

Sounds like this is a situation that can massively shape the future of TAMI. Let’s make sure it’s shaping TAMI in a positive way.
At Noisebridge in San Francisco we also had a lot of trouble, leading to the reboot around 2014. Besides the whole space getting renovated there also has been a change in the door policy, which turned out to be not limiting but enabling for Noisebridge.
Instead of the door being open all the time for everyone without anyone checking who comes in - instead we got a system where the door is locked by default and people (if they don’t have an access token, as trusted people) have to ring the door bell and wait for someone to open the door. Then the person who opened the door will ask the guest at the door “Hey, welcome! Have you ever been here before?”. Possibly an optional “what is the one rule here?” (To be excellent to each other), if the person says yes. Otherwise the person who opened the door gives that new person a tour, explaining what the space is all about, etc.

That’s great in a lot of ways:

  • it makes sure people understand what the space is all about
  • we can better make sure the people coming in are Sabbaba (?^^)
  • it makes new people aware that they have been noticed while coming in, making possible thefts feel less secure to steal stuff

The other important part of such a system:

  • a list with pictures of people who are banned from the space (and best: an explanation why)
  • A security camera pointed to the door entrance (which only live streams, not saving videos) + a display next to the entrance (inside the space) to show the live stream.

This way the person who wants to open the door can check if the person who wants to get in is banned.

But whatever we do… we have to make sure we don’t get paranoid and not assume everyone who comes in has something bad in mind. Otherwise we will kill TAMI this way:(

Also: whatever security measurements we implement - TAMI has to stay accessible for new people, welcoming - and like in every Hackspace we won’t be able to 100% prevent theft. But yes, its important to reduce it to a minimum.

I tried to install a food locker tube out of metal tonight but got massive and exagerated aggregated response out of two TAMI members. One of them claimimg to be the TAMI authority on welding at TAMI. ( I have been welding proffessionaly with close to decrepit equipment for many years.)
TAMI does not provide us new hackers with a positive attitude to do something about the above situation. A,ll the talk seems to be about is Securioty if security cameras have anything to do with creation stability / security…


David, though we’ve haven’t been on the best terms lately, I think I want to solve this. Let’s talk about it next time in TAMI.

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And yet again banned people caught at TAMI in the middle of the night and thrown out. Locks are being worked on (you will receive an electronic key), but, regardless, remember that if you work at TAMI it is your responsibility to make sure this does not happen. The problem is not just with bad guys but with people letting them in. Think of TAMI like your home.

What is an “Egg shaped Nadnedah”?
A tent?
Would be interesting to know for traveling.

Cheers ludwig