Changing asked "membership donation" price

i feel that if we drop the “200 nis a month or whatever you can” to something more ppl can afford (say 20 a month) we will see more monthly donation which in turn means over all constant income**

the reason i’m saying this is, looking at the SOS campaign -

  1. ppl who want to help tami usually will put a big one time donation (larger then the 200)
  2. frequently ppl express to me that 200 is too steep for them as an “entrance fee” to become a member.
    and would feel more comfortable with a smaller sum.(even monthly!)

Thoughts ?

** the caveat here is making sure we switch to as much reoccurring payments as we can instead of random donations here and there.

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I agree with the direction, classic optimization of the expectancy. But think we should start with less drastic iterations.
E.g. in the range 50-100 a month

Also another issue is ensuring the members who pay more and can afford it continue to do so and wait until we hit the break even point

Agree… 50 shekel would be a lot more accessible then 200 shekel…

Also I suggest not to call it “membership” maybe something else e.g. “community member”, membership gives the vibe of a closed club.

definitely. i miss spoke.

I know my direction is a bit controversial, but this proposal brings it closer. I think with donation sum of 50 nis for example, we shouldn’t give keys to the place to every new “member”. At the moment getting someone to open TAMI daily does not seem to be a problem, so our focus should be on money and security IMHO.

Don’t see how the amount relates to the inclusion or exclusion. It’s a matter of trust. Someone can pay 500NIS and take off with 900NIS.
Trust is something that you build and takes time or usually a show of positive action.

I strongly disagree. It’s true we are seeing an increase in action since we started by opening the door, but IMO we’re far from where we should be.

  • The Guaranteed hours in the calendar and ISATAMI record are quite empty. Evenings only for now and no redundancy.
  • Yesterday I came at 2PM and there was no one in, I had to open the place.
  • And for today I really struggled to find someone to replace me.

What I meant is suspending the key giveaway process alltogether for some time.
What should warrant a key IMO:

  1. Having a GTBO day (which I think is a bit counterproductive)
    or 2. Leaving heavy tools in TAMI with option for other people to use it (Spiegelglas, Kosta, Margalit)
    or 3. Being a key staff member (I believe no names are needed here)

I think when we stop promising keys for “undefined” monthly donation, things can get a bit easier.

The suggested sum should not be some imaginary figure, it’s what we actually need to run TAMI on a monthly basis. So, if the current number of paying members is n, the simplest solution for that number equals (monthly-expenses) / (n + 1), ie. ~400 NIS.

Communicating this to everyone is critical, and “suggesting” anything below is basically stating that “we have no idea how to make this place actually sustainable, but we like nice round numbers”. We can call it by it’s name: ‘how much every member needs to pay for TAMI to live on’, but ‘suggested membership sum’ is better, as long as we remember what it means.

We should encourage everyone to donate something. The ‘or whatever you can’ bit is there to exactly for that purpose, and 20 NIS if perfectly fine. There’s a big difference that comes along giving something every month, whatever the sum may be.

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For what it is worth, TOG in Dublin use a ‘3 months as a paying member, with multiple attendances to open nights, plus two members vouching for your attendance and behaviour to get a key’ system. It seems to work out ok so far

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The fact is that in order to make is sustainable we need the CONSTANT income.
and no one in the history of TAMI sustained the 200 nis a month price.

lowering the monthly donation will allow more ppl to potentially sustain the monthly income and will make TAMI more stable. that’s the idea about lowering the asked donation.

it’s not only lowering the asked donation but also asking to make it reoccurring (הוראות קבע )
yup, sounds like a membership clique with vouching hierarchies and politics. I wouldn’t join that. But whatever works for them. It seems to solve the monetary issues via "The space is fully funded by its members " but not the kind of community forming process that IMO should be in TAMI.

Nevertheless, I do think making the processes of entering TAMI a bit more defined , will serve to get a less confusing, easier landing into TAMI , so agreeing with Max on that one , the process remaining very undefined makes it confusing thus hard for people to join.

. I think “obvious contribution and trustworthy” is a better direction.
In a doOcracy roles are self-assigned and “Staff” implies employee-employer relationships and that there’s a guaranteed service which new members should expect to get, but there isn’t - things happen through free will volunteering and if someone expects something to happen the just fucking do it protocol is in effect.

I can honestly say that there is zero evidence of any hierarchy or cliques. Any two members can vouch for you - if you can’t get to know two members in 3 months then you’re really not interacting in the space at all, and 091labs experiences showed that that is its own problem. I’ve been a full member for nearly six months, and I’ve been happy to vouch for a half a dozen new members in that time.

Cliques are an artifact of the atmosphere at the place, not the membership system, in my experience. They can happen at somewhere that’s free as easily as somewhere expensive, and they generally only take the efforts of a few experienced people to pretty much smash if they do form.

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I’m sure that’s probably true.
The process, at least the way it is described on the site , sounds more like an application to an acceptance procedure of a country club, where you have to earn a privilege and pay a subscription or buy a share.
It might be a cultural thing, suitable particularly for Europe.
In TAMI I’d like to think this privilege is everyone’s right by default, unless you’ve done something seriously wrong. I think that’s the major difference between building an open community which uses hacking as a means to facilitate a free and dynamic community, to a club who’s purpose is only to facilitate making.
Such a community obviously is not without its challenges either.

" Important – Forms which do not list two full members as nominees, will not be processed "

The requirement to fill in a form seems to me alienating and over-formalizes the principle of “Be excellent to each other” to the extent that I personally would be somewhat deterred.
This principle can only be attested by one’s interactions with the community in the 1st place.

Ok, thanks, that makes much more sense.

Yes, most European (and US) hackerspaces charge for out-of-hours access.

In terms of ‘open culture’, I think that culture in a hackerspaces goes to ways -an incoming member brings their culture with them, butt also needs to learn the culture of the shared space (Respect other members, respect shared and private belongings, clean up after yourself, using the space as a creative space not a living space, etc - the detailed of these will vary from space to space). The idea of the three month period is to provide an adjustment period where those new norms can be learnt.