2019 - tami shutdown/hibernate/recalculate

as you know, tami is not cutting it financially.
a few options for the future

door 1

KG45 shutdown, end of this month, february (28th)
open tasks:

  • find an alternative renter
  • clear tami from stuff (either by ??? or ???)
  • find how to not ruin our good amuta standing

tami will live-on as a virtual entity, a sleeper cell

door 2

continue as is
tami needs 10K a month, each month , to keep alive.
that includes the 7K rent + utilities and debts we accumulated.
under best circumstances .

  1. go to the muni and talk/beg for our 2018 arnona debt to be spread (they agreed to 3-5 splits, hopefully more if we sweet talk them). this needs signed checks to be issued.
  2. submit our 2017 report (ye, 2017 , its one year back always) to our accountant
  3. re-submit the mosad process again. to get the 1/3 arnona
  4. ???

if you are interested in taking onto yourself the admin and financial responsibility of keeping KG45 beating, let me know.

door 3



i will return to tlv around the 21.2 to help with any decision made.
as bureaucracy lead for the last few years i feel i have to push the button
tami as always been a consensus seeking entity, discusses away

this are hard things to write. i have been sitting on this for awhile.


Hi Yair,

Thanks for all the hard work youโ€™ve put into keeping TAMI alive, I really appreciate it.

After a long break, Iโ€™ve just started using it and I would really hate to see it shutdown. Iโ€™m even considering replacing you as admin&financial lead (if youโ€™re considering it too, letโ€™s talk and see how we can share the burden). But before making a decision, Iโ€™d like to understand the income side of things. The income column in the budget spreadsheet is updated as of July 2018 and it would help to see the numbers for last month as well as the debt we have and its terms.

thank you @daonb for reaching out
new blood :slight_smile:
regarding the financial situation, ill ask @rshouker to answer this one, as he has a hand on the pulse of tami

Thanks @yair99 for bringing this up, and regardless thanks for lubricating the bureaucratic processes up until now.

I agree we need to review the TAMI situation - just as we have tried to do a few months ago.

Specifically, Iโ€™d also like to hear whether the bio lab has any input on how we can move forward. They are now (physically) a large part of TAMI and should have a say (and matching pockets) in how they think we should sustain financially.

Regarding the TAMI core we donโ€™t have any more options than we had last time:

  • bump up member fees
  • do more PAID workshops
  • bring in angel money (with no strings attached)

Iโ€™d personally like to drop the bag a well - Iโ€™ve been tossing 1000-1500 nis a month into the black hole for long enough . Not to mention the periodic emergencies โ€ฆ Shutting down will take some hard work and i dont imagine we can hack it till end of feb - e.g. how do we get rid of the lathe/ mill? Is end of feb when the lease is up?

True Jr

We have to give notice of 2 month advance. Unless we find an alternative renter.
The market value for the space is an ok deal. yes,it will take more then 2 weeks. but we need to redtape it sometime

Regarding the equipment, we should discuss this. A few alternatives.

Benny, did you contact ronen?
I estimate we miss 35% of each month quote. (see below posting)
Depends how the current pool hold.
Tami had a few reliable backers before, not sure taking the Borden onto yourself without a few others to chip in will work long term. the admin job is a pro-active one, needs attention and being pushy. not something historically abundant at tami.

I had a short walk and decided to chime in.

Some unordered thoughts:

I would be very sad if TAMI stopped to exist.
Overall I consider TAMI to be working. I would rather invest in fixing what can be better.
I will be happy to double my pay if everybody else do the same (or any factor in (1, 2] )

Some questions we should all ask ourselves:

  1. What does a hackerspace look like?
  2. Is TAMI that?
  3. Do we benefit from having it in our lives?

Regarding the main point, money:

  1. Fee: double the members payment would work? can @yair99 provide the hard numbers right now? my password for our account expired, so if anyone can let me have a dump of our account movements for the last month Iโ€™ll gladly post some summaries we can work with.

  2. Workshops are a good idea but not enough for the next few months most probably

  3. angels yes please. how?

  4. sponsorships I always hated this. But ok: Red Hat^H^HIBM? Google? Small companies from around here? GM?

@daonb I personally enjoyed the last 6 years, met people I never would have otherwise, learned some things I wouldnโ€™t have otherwise. And I feel like we are providing a safe haven of sorts. Maybe Iโ€™m deluding myself. But I also spent a lot of money on this pleasure. Is this the best place to have a hackerspace? can we find a cheaper place? do you even want to use TAMI and not make another place? I dunno.

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we currently have 20,000 shekels in the account. (tommorw -7k rent)
based on january figures regular members (paying 200-300 nis) account for only ~4000nis
about 40%.
donations at the box change, between 500-1500 a month (afik).
the rest of the needed 10K/month is bleeded by 2-4 others. depends on the weather.

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So doubling gets us not enough. We need about x2.5 iiuc from everyone. Can you download an excel so I can make a list of the people to contact?

Do we want me to contact them?

What about the biolab as Yuval asked? Did someone talk to them?

@jeremy_rutman and @jeremy.rutman I understand you but do not share your sentiment.

i just peeked into our invoice system
there are 156 names on that list.
basically everyone that asked for receipt in the last n years (i think we switched in 2016)
it includes past and present members, workshop attendees, etcโ€ฆ
ill send it off list.

1 Like

Although Iโ€™m not a paying member (Wish I could afford), I would like to say a few things:

  1. Have you considered asking Hamakor for money?
  2. There are a few groups that may be interested in TAMI (for events and knowledge sharing): Sustainability groups (Iโ€™m trying to contact them already but you should try too), Space-IL and IL National space agency.
  3. Companies: You can consider companies that are pro OSS. Maybe Linnovate?
  4. On April 3rd there is a liberal\libertarian conference in Tel Aviv. You can go there and talk to people.

Shay G

send (name, amount paid) if possible - I could have a generic mail and a personal mail for people with a higher a priori conversion rate. (the term fits).

email and phone number if available

Hi guys,

Iโ€™m trying to pull some strings with a contact I have in a large financial institution. Do you have a specific sponser model in mind? can TAMI survive past end of February? is there any material/presentation to pitch your plea?
I rather not go into details and the odds are slim, so I donโ€™t want to get anyoneโ€™s hopes up.

if needed, how can I take this offline with one/all of you guys?

somewhat outdated presentation here

you can findn some pics on blog
will try to ul more pics
updated plea


annoying โ€˜featureโ€™ of discourse: >2 links are disallowed &^&^

A donations letter is here (reproduced below)
pls. keep track of who got sent these pleas so we dont over-plea

likely victim list:
any other successful/large il startups that might be intstd
any other tool type companies
us - il jewish groups / funds
any other suggestions recโ€™d here

sent to:
bitcoin embassy info @ bitembassy org
bosch dewalt. com/ support/contact-us
wix support ticket support. wix. com/ en/ticket/42acf299-7ec1-4a6f-86e5-6242b4f26e1c
redhat rh-summit @ itagroup. com

ืฉืœื•ื ืจื‘,

ืื ื™ ืคื•ื ื” ืืœื™ื›ื ื‘ื‘ืงืฉื” ืœืฉืงื•ืœ ืœืชืจื•ื ืœืชืœ ืื‘ื™ื‘ ืžื™ื™ืงืจืก, ืžืขื‘ื“ื” ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ืช ื—ื™ื ืžื™ืช ื”ื ืžืฆืืช ื‘ื“ืจื•ื ืชืœ ืื‘ื™ื‘, ื”ืคืชื•ื—ื” ืœืฆื™ื‘ื•ืจ ื”ืจื—ื‘ ื•ืžื ื’ื™ืฉื” ื—ื™ื ื•ืš ืœื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ืœื›ื•ืœื โ€“ ื™ืœื“ื™ื, ืฆืขื™ืจื™ื•ื, ื”ื•ืจื™ื , ืคื ืกื™ื•ื ื™ื™ืจื™ื, ื•ืงื”ื™ืœื•ืช ืžื•ื—ืœืฉื•ืช. ื‘ืชืืžโ€™ื™ ื™ืฉ ืื•ืกืฃ ืขืฉื™ืจ ืฉืœ ืฆื™ื•ื“ ืœืขื™ื‘ื•ื“ ืžืชื›ืช, ืขื™ื‘ื•ื“ ืขืฅ ื•ื›ืŸ ื™ืฉื ื• ืฆื™ื•ื“ ืืœืงื˜ืจื•ื ื™ ืžืชืงื“ื ื•ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืžืชืžื—ื™ื ื‘ื›ืœ ืื•ืชื ืชื—ื•ืžื™ื.

ื‘ื ื•ืกืฃ, ืžืชืงื™ื™ืžื•ืช ื‘ืชโ€™ืืžื™ ืคืขื™ืœื•ื™ื•ืช ืืฉืจ ืจื•ื‘ืŸ ื ืขืจื›ื•ืช ืœืœื ืขืœื•ืช, ื”ื›ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื”ืจืฆืื•ืช, ืžืคื’ืฉื™ื ื•ืกื“ื ืื•ืช ื‘ืชื—ื•ืžื™ื ืจื‘ื™ื ื›ื’ื•ืŸ: ืงื•ื“ ืคืชื•ื—, ืชื™ืงื•ืŸ ืื•ืคื ื™ื™ื, ืžื—ืฉื‘ื™ื ื–ืขื™ืจื™ื, ื‘ื ื™ื™ืช ืจื•ื‘ื•ื˜ื™ื, ืชืคื™ืจืช ืชื™ืงื™ื, ืืคื™ื™ื”, ื‘ื™ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ื•ืขื•ื“.

ื”ืžืงื•ื ืžื™ื•ืขื“ ืœืžื™ื™ืงืจื™ื (ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ื‘ื•ื ื™ื ื‘ืขืฆืžื ืฆื™ื•ื“ ืžื’ื•ื•ืŸ ื›ื’ื•ืŸ ืื•ืคื ื™ื™ื, ื›ืœื™ ืžื•ื–ื™ืงื” ื•ืžื•ืฆืจื™ ืืœืงื˜ืจื•ื ื™ืงื”), ื•ื›ืŸ ืœืื•ืžื ื™ื, ื ื’ืจื™ื, ืืœืงื˜ืจื•ื ืื™ื, ื‘ื•ื ื™ ืจื•ื‘ื•ื˜ื™ื, ืžืชื›ื ืชื™ื, ื•ื›ืœ ืžื™ ืฉืžืขื•ื ื™ื™ืŸ ืœืœืžื•ื“ ืœื‘ื ื•ืช ืฆื™ื•ื“ ื›ื–ื”, ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืื• ืœืฉื•ื—ื—.

ื—ืœืง ื ื›ื‘ื“ ืžื”ืคืขื™ืœื•ื™ื•ืช ืžื™ื•ืขื“ ืœื™ืœื“ื™ื ื”ื‘ืื™ื ืœืกื“ื ืื•ืช ืขื ื”ื•ืจื™ื”ื, ืคื ืกื™ื•ื ืจื™ื ื”ื‘ืื™ื ืœืงื—ืช ื—ืœืง ื‘ืคืจื•ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ื•ืœื—ืœื•ืง ืืช ื”ื™ื“ืข ืฉืœื”ื ืขื ื”ืงื”ื™ืœื”, ื•ืคืจื™ืœื ืกืจื™ื ื”ื‘ืื™ื ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืขื ื•ื™ืคื™ ื•ืขื•ื“ ืื ืฉื™ื ืขื ืฉืœืœ ื”ืชืžื—ื•ื™ื•ืช.

ื”ืขื™ืงืจื•ืŸ ื”ืžื ื—ื” ืื•ืชื ื• ื”ื™ื ื• ื”ื ื’ืฉืช ื”ื—ืœืœ ืœืงื”ื™ืœื”, ื•ืœืคื™ื›ืš ืื™ื ื ื• ื’ื•ื‘ื™ื ืชืฉืœื•ื ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ื›ื ื™ืกื” ื•ื”ืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ ื‘ืฆื™ื•ื“. ืขืœ ืžื ืช ืœืžืžืŸ ืืช ื”ืคืขื™ืœื•ืช, ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืžืฉืชืžืฉื™ื ื”ืงื‘ื•ืขื™ื ื”ืžืขื•ื ื™ื™ื ื™ื ื‘ื›ืš ืžืฉืœืžื™ื ื‘ื”ืชื ื“ื‘ื•ืช ื“ืžื™ ื—ื‘ืจ ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื™ื.

ืœืื—ืจื•ื ื” ื”ืชืงื‘ืœื” ื‘ืงืฉืชื ื• ืœืงื‘ืœ ื”ืงืœื” ื‘ื“ืžื™ ื”ืืจื ื•ื ื”. ืžื›ื™ื•ื•ืŸ ืฉื™ืฉ ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืžื—ืจื˜ื” (ื”ืžื™ื•ืขื“ืช ืœืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ ื”ืงื”ื™ืœื” ื•ืœื ืœืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ ืขื™ืกืงื™), ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ื’ื“ืจ ื”ืžืงื•ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืขื™ืจื™ื” ื›ื‘ื™ืช ืžืœืื›ื”, ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ืžืžืงื ืื•ืชื ื• ื‘ืงื˜ื’ื•ืจื™ืช ื”ืืจื ื•ื ื” ื”ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื” ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ. ื‘ื ื•ืกืฃ, ื‘ืงืฉืชื ื• ืœืงื‘ืœ ืกื˜ื˜ื•ืก ืฉืœ ืžื•ืกื“ ืœืœื ืžื˜ืจืช ืจื•ื•ื— ื ื“ื—ืชื” ื’ื ื”ื™ื.

ื”ืขืœื•ืช ื”ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื” ืฉืœ ื”ืืจื ื•ื ื” ื’ืจืžื” ืœื ื• ืœื”ื™ืงืœืข ืœื”ื•ืฆืื•ืช ื›ืกืคื™ื•ืช ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื•ืช ืืฉืจ ื“ืžื™ ื”ื—ื‘ืจ ื”ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื™ื ืื™ื ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžืžืŸ. ืขืœ ืžื ืช ืฉื ื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืฉืืจ ืืช ื”ืžืงื•ื ืคืชื•ื— ืœืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ ื”ืงื”ื™ืœื”, ืื ื™ ืคื•ื ื” ืืœื™ื›ื ื‘ื‘ืงืฉื” ืœืชืจื•ื ืœืžืงื•ื ืฉืžื”ื•ื•ื” ื‘ื™ืŸ ื‘ื™ืช ื—ื ืœืกืคืจื™ืช ืขืฉื”-ื–ืืช-ื‘ืขืฆืžืš.

ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื” ืขืœ ื–ืžื ื›ื ื•ืชืฉื•ืžืช ืœื™ื‘ื›ื.

ื’โ€™ืจืžื™ ืจื•ื˜ืžืŸ ื•ื›ื• ื•ื›ื•

ืชืœ ืื‘ื™ื‘ ืžื™ื™ืงืจืก

telavivmakers . org


I am writing on behalf of Tel Aviv Makers , a free community space in south Tel Aviv. TAMI is open to the public at large, and provides a forum for building, working, and technical education for everyone - children,parents, pensioners, freelancers, and disempowered communities. The space contains a large collection of equipment for metalwork, woodwork, electronics, computers, and people with knowledge in these disciplines.

There are a number of organized activities at TAMI most of which do not require fees, including lectures, meetings and workshops in various fields: open source software, hardware, bicycle repair, robotics, sewing, baking, DIY biology and more.

The space is dedicated to do-it-yourselfers - makers, carpenters, instrument buiders, electronics buffs, programmers, artists, and anyone who wants to learn any of these fields, to work independently or in groups, or to consult.

Kids come for workshops with their parents, pensioners come to do projects and give of their knowledge to the community, and freelancers come to work in a space with free wifi and other people having a wide range of experience and specialties.
The guiding principle of the space is accessibility to the community, and therefore we do not charge any entrance or other fees (excluding some workshops covering their materials).

To cover rent, utilities and property tax (in Israel this is paid by renters and not ownersโ€ฆ) some of the members pay a voluntary monthly membership fee.

Recently our long-standing request for a property tax reduction was accepted. Since we have a lathe, we were categorized as a mechanical workshop by the city, which put us in the highest possible property tax bracket. A request for NGO status was also denied by the authorities.
The high arnona and lack of tax reduction has put us into a hard position financially which the member contributions canโ€™t cover.
I therefore am asking for your help to keep TAMI alive by contributing.
Thanks for your time

Jeremy etc etc

whoops that bit at the end of the plea above on arnona denial was recently rendered incorrect. Anyone have a good email for redhat (@alon iโ€™m not looking at you but would be if you were in this hammock)

Two possible solutions I could think of:

  1. Short term - run a public funding campaign in a platform such as Mimoona (see example project: https://www.mimoona.co.il/Projects/4909.
    Objective can be modest, e.g. โ€œkeep TAMI going for next 12 monthsโ€
    Disadvantage is the commission these sites take (e.g. 9-12% for Mimoona )
    One advantage is that a good idea of the funding raised can be obtained quite early, before the cut-off date of the campaign itself and before 28th of Feb.
    Another adv perhaps is that the campaign plea in this format may be considered more appealing and can be sent to organizations mentioned in prev. posts and e.g. all Facebook members, etc

  2. Long term - strive to get status of NGO eligible for "[section 46]
    This means that individual donators will be eligible for 35% tax returns on donations over 190NIS See ื–ื™ื›ื•ื™ ืžืžืก ื”ื›ื ืกื” ื‘ืฉืœ ืชืจื•ืžื” (ืกืขื™ืฃ 46) in Kol Zchut, ( I was not allowed to add more than 1 link). For companies the return is around 25%, thereby substantially encouraging an increase in the amount per donation and number of donors.
    Even if the amount of donations remains the same for one year, the next year some of the donations could be recycled from the tax returns.

If this direction is agreeable with other members, I will take it upon myself to push to get this status for TAMI and organize whatever is necessary (incl. employing professional help).

i deleted the handout post on fb,
its exemplifies the attitude im against, throwing money at a problem.
letโ€™s reconsider our trajectory and have a unified idea of what are we going for. .